tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4704148890264843595.post5064401000571976126..comments2024-03-27T03:46:07.097-07:00Comments on Raman's strategic analysis: THE BLOOD-STAINED BEIJING OLYMPICS: AN OPEN LETTER TO AAMIR KHANB.RAMANhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12278000644746170031noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4704148890264843595.post-35722698415813786162008-04-07T18:39:00.000-07:002008-04-07T18:39:00.000-07:00I think Amir Khan is far too intelligent to believ...I think Amir Khan is far too intelligent to believe his spin. There must be other reasons behind his decision not to boycott. <BR/><BR/>Of late there has been strong effort to move public opinion in favour of China. I am surprised at the number of people falling for this. Sometimes I feel that we never truly shook off the dependence fostered in us by the British. It is only being transferred from one power to another. <BR/><BR/>With global warming and competition for resources coming upon us much faster than we expected, we are in for some troubled times. Considering that our 'netas' are 'leading' the way, I am very scared for our nation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4704148890264843595.post-22856336347767337972008-04-06T04:12:00.000-07:002008-04-06T04:12:00.000-07:00Amir Khans Logic of Seeing Olympic games as dif...Amir Khans Logic of Seeing Olympic games as different from Chinese Totalitarian regime is his foolishness . events like Olympic games are tools and Tools in the hands of Regimes becomes extensions of that regimes and its ideology .<BR/><BR/>These games are used by Chinese communists to proves the success of their Ideology .<BR/><BR/>No nation is perfect , but the nation and its Policies are different from the behavior of its People .<BR/>Gujrat Riots or any incident of human riots violation-by certain section is different from the policies of Indian State . Nation or governments are judged by its reaction and policies on these incidents and not by the behavior of certain smaller section .Hazel Dreamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05132301431389951410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4704148890264843595.post-85442397081826411232008-04-05T11:08:00.000-07:002008-04-05T11:08:00.000-07:00Dear Huzefa,Again, you don't seem to be getting it...Dear Huzefa,<BR/>Again, you don't seem to be getting it. I am not saying that violations by Indian Army or Gujarat riots are one off things. I am saying that Indian state is not the same as state/s in India or Indian states. It has to do with the nation state concept on the basis of which countries/govts are running today. India/Indian state represent the nation's policy. If the policy of the govt of India/constitution were to be as you are saying, the insurgencies in NE or terrorism in JK or Naxalism would have been crushed without a trace long back. If, as you say is true then there wouldn't have been 17-18% minorities in India. Muslims would have never been able to achieve 15%+ population. <BR/><BR/>"...In a democracy, there are subtler, majoritarian methods of doing things...."<BR/><BR/>Looks like another conspiracy theory without basis. If the entire Hindu population as mentioned by you by the use of the phrase "majoritarian methods" were to be true, 15+% muslim population is no match for 80+%, you could have been decimated/exterminated long back. The fact the BJP and friends aren't winning elections in the 80+% of the country should prove that entire Hindu population is not hardcore as is made out to be by these goddamn pseudoseculars. If not BJP should have been in power since it's birth and never should have lost an election, afterall one of their manifesto is Hindutva which should have attracted the 80+% Hindus. Muslims would have been an endangered species in India like the minorities in JK, Pakistan or B'desh. If India were to follow Majoritarian methods as you say then Republic of India would have long back become Hindu REpublic of India like the Islamic Republic of Pakistan (in which case the stress in constitution would have been on majority religion and not on secularism) and this is also another point in what differentiates between the actions of Indian state and Indian states/States in/of India.<BR/><BR/>If as you talk of Majoritarian methods were true, the likes of Praveen Togadia should have become Hindu high priests instead of being cut to size. <BR/><BR/>For the poor nodoubt the first priority is to survive at the same time proper education, information is also necessary for them. If the likes of Zakir Naik, sorry Dr. Zakir Naik and Dr. Praveen Togadia (damn!! to this day I never realised that these 2 duffers are docs, what a commonality!!!) are allowed to teach them they certainly will be fed with animosity. Dr. Naik praises oBL, praises his ideology and encourages every Muslim to follow. and even introduces the concept of Fatherland. Now if the poor start following Dr. Naik's words of first loyalty to community and not to the country, better we all buckle up for civil war in the country. The likes of Naik should be kicked out to the periphery like Togadia and then finally made into irrelevance. There cannot be peace in the country so long as some sections of muslims have trouble deciding their first loyalty owing to the lectures of Naiks and Dar ul Uloom. This is not to say that the entire Muslim population is like Naik but slowly the ideology is creeping in or else there is nothing that explains the increase in the terrorist attacks in India and why Indians should be bombed and killed in the name of Jihad by the home grown terrorists just because US and India are warming up or the India and Israel have good defense ties.Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12312705658018795548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4704148890264843595.post-6110759685922009942008-04-05T06:11:00.000-07:002008-04-05T06:11:00.000-07:00@ RYou are right about the twisted analysis and se...@ R<BR/><BR/>You are right about the twisted analysis and self-pity argument. These in turn are reinforced by what one sees around and then try to form a cause and effect relation between them. A poor's only concern is to survive. It is only when he is better off that he has the time to think - in a vicious circle sometimes. Injustice perceived or real triggers it.<BR/><BR/>It is easier to disown the parts of India which do not fit into one's idea of India but it is not correct. One might wish that Indian army's was a violation of the rule and what happened in 2002 was a blot - a one-off thing. But these are as much a part of India as anything else. Fragile it may be, but ours is a democracy and to expect things like "atrocities by the Indian state" would serve no purpose. In a democracy, there are subtler, majoritarian methods of doing things.Huzefa Mukadamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13260331363282749144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4704148890264843595.post-32618415654234623112008-04-04T18:12:00.000-07:002008-04-04T18:12:00.000-07:00Dear Huzefa,You keep referring to atrocities in In...Dear Huzefa,<BR/>You keep referring to atrocities in India as Indian atrocities, you have to careful here. Indian atrocities are not the same as atrocities in India. When you say Indian, you are referring to the Indian state. The high handedness by Indian Army in insurgent hit areas is a violation of the rule no doubt but to equate that to or saying that as Indian atrocities is immaturity or biased approach (as is applicable). The same goes with Gujarat or any other communal violence. Gujarat is a part of India, India is not a part of Gujarat.<BR/><BR/>"...The reasons are as much political and even more so socio-economical..."<BR/><BR/>If you are saying that one of the reasons behind Islamic terrorism is <BR/>socio economic causes, I dispute that, especially economic. These days economically well to do people with well educated background are taking to the jihadi terrorism as seen by the recent arrests in B'lore as also in Europe, USA (CAIR, a good example). It has nothing to do with economic or even social reasons (US and UK/Europe have better implementation of democracy than India).<BR/><BR/>It is more of a mentality, an attitude, an ideology using the tools of religion, twisted analysis of geo politics and self pity.Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12312705658018795548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4704148890264843595.post-68985280646031008792008-04-04T14:49:00.000-07:002008-04-04T14:49:00.000-07:00Off-topic:Mr Raman, could you please change the ba...Off-topic:<BR/><BR/>Mr Raman, could you please change the background on the main page. The black background is kinda tough on the eye.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for an excellent post. I doubt Mr Aamir Khan would be so obstinate in his defense had the olympics being held in Israel.socalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02327883033805273953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4704148890264843595.post-14223584039824150752008-04-04T14:47:00.000-07:002008-04-04T14:47:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05522124216357637805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4704148890264843595.post-57897667715547610042008-04-04T07:06:00.000-07:002008-04-04T07:06:00.000-07:00The terrorist activities by the so called jehadis ...The terrorist activities by the so called jehadis are unequivocally condemnable. They do not understand the meaning of Jehad so to speak of. If you look at the subtext, religion is indeed a bunny they are riding on. The reasons are as much political and even more so socio-economical. So using Islam and terror in the same sentence does not make sense. The case of ethnic cleansing in Kashmir was in no way just religious. Political gains had to be had.<BR/><BR/>Among the so-called Indian atrocities, let us not forget the ones meted out by our army in the north-east. So much so that the women had to carry out a demonstration while covering themselves only with a banner. A case of power corrupting and absolute power corrupting absolutely.<BR/><BR/>If we are forgetting, the fatwa on Sania Mirza, laughable as it was, has had no effect on her game. And I cannot understand the hue and cry over Taslima Nasreen. She is not an Indian citizen and only a visitor. Visitors are expected to be guests - in conduct as well as practice.<BR/><BR/>There is no such thing as free speech. Every free speech has costs - hidden or otherwise associated with it. When an MF Hussain excercises his right to free speech, he has to be prepared for the costs. Ditto for Taslima. Of course, these costs are visible. Hidden costs would be a boycott of MF Hussain's paintings and Taslima's books.<BR/><BR/>Truth is a spectrum to which we all apply our own filters.Huzefa Mukadamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13260331363282749144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4704148890264843595.post-12975182154552682902008-04-04T06:47:00.000-07:002008-04-04T06:47:00.000-07:00Mr. Raman, you have wrote a long and thoughtful re...Mr. Raman, you have wrote a long and thoughtful response regarding Aamir's decision to carry the torch. You mention all the reasons why he is wrong about equating India and China and how India is better in its dealing of minority-related issues. However, he is "only" carrying a torch and what does being better than China in minority-related issues anyway. Does it matter to the person who is on the receiving end of it -- one suffers for may be a few days and is dead, the other for years and years, but remains alive?<BR/><BR/>You mention that the Chinese will use this as propaganda, so what? Does propaganda fuel the Chinese military and their authoritative govt? No, money does. If you really want to make a stand against the Chinese and their way of doing things, stop buying Made in China products, campaign the govt. to enact economic sanctions. Somehow, that will never happen because we all want cheap goods and if someone else (with whom we almost never have to deal with or see) has to pay a price for it, oh well.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I don't care why Aamir carries the torch and nor do I "really" care much about the Tibetans issues because I am not about to impose a self-ban on buying Chinese-made products. Also, to all others who say that they support the Tibetans issues, can I ask how? And a vocal support is meaningless.Ankithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15276329692334674231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4704148890264843595.post-61466454050005876302008-04-04T06:22:00.000-07:002008-04-04T06:22:00.000-07:00Huzefa's comments makes interesting reading. But i...Huzefa's comments makes interesting reading. But it is typical. It does not make any reference to the scores of terrorist strikes carried out by hardcore "jihadis" in the name of religion in which thousands of innocent lives irrespective of race, creed, colour, religion or sex have been lost. The comments unfortunately are aimed at either Gujarat or the so-called Indian atrocities in Kashmir and of course an anti-conversion bill of Rajasthan. <BR/><BR/>The reader must reflect on the ethnic cleansing carried out in Kashmir by Islamic terror outfits and the bombings in various parts of India. Why is not intolerance towards the Bangla writer, Taslima or the tennis star Sania Mirza never taken up.Kumarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02571503236070897848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4704148890264843595.post-21787588106290344302008-04-03T21:29:00.000-07:002008-04-03T21:29:00.000-07:00Dear Zarrar,Of course, no country is perfect. It n...Dear Zarrar,<BR/><BR/>Of course, no country is perfect. It need not be. This is a lame argument thrown out by mostly autocratic and dictatorial regimes to deflect criticism from their own failings.<BR/><BR/>If you read Mr Raman's post properly, you'll notice that it is about <EM>how countries deal with their imperfections</EM>.PaiNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06913824121540912648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4704148890264843595.post-91819261707473066632008-04-03T21:07:00.000-07:002008-04-03T21:07:00.000-07:00I agree 100% with Huzefa. Mr. Raman with all due r...I agree 100% with Huzefa. Mr. Raman with all due respect you are missing out the main point Aamir Khan is trying to make. No country is perfect, even India. <BR/>Mr. Raman your strategic analysis has a serious flaw in it. You missed out Gujarat.<BR/><BR/>Zarrar<BR/>USAzarrarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04098194614956855689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4704148890264843595.post-34181969668044651932008-04-03T17:35:00.000-07:002008-04-03T17:35:00.000-07:00Mr Raman doesn't make it, but the question is can ...Mr Raman doesn't make it, but the question is can a man who is not proud of his own country's values carry the torch for India?<BR/><BR/>Mr Khan is entitled to his argument about the apolitical Olympic spirit.<BR/><BR/>But as Mr Raman writes, he paints India and China in the same brush. Sure he condemns any kind of violence, but would he have even been able to make such a speech if he were in China? <BR/><BR/>It is entirely within Mr Khan's rights to run or not to run. But as Indian citizens we can say that we are ashamed that we are asking such a person to represent India.PaiNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06913824121540912648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4704148890264843595.post-34378320156375565962008-04-03T15:28:00.000-07:002008-04-03T15:28:00.000-07:00@ Mother IndiaWhen we are talking about suppressio...@ Mother India<BR/><BR/>When we are talking about suppression and human rights, Gujarat is very much valid. Nandigram is a horror too.<BR/><BR/>Contrary to what yo say about no journo being there, Tibet has been very much in the news and the coverage has been extensive. Can't say that it has been neutral though.<BR/><BR/>PS: It is Huzefa, not MusefaHuzefa Mukadamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13260331363282749144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4704148890264843595.post-13693863197817428692008-04-03T13:10:00.000-07:002008-04-03T13:10:00.000-07:00Mr. Musefawhy do talk about Gujarat? We allowed as...Mr. Musefa<BR/><BR/>why do talk about Gujarat? We allowed asma jehangir to visit the state recently. there is nothing wrong in banning forced conversion, cheating poor people. Did asma jehangit visit nandigram?<BR/><BR/><BR/>look how chinese are suppressing and killing innocent tibetans, no journalist can visit and make an independent investigation.Love Mother Indiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18059075308622375518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4704148890264843595.post-21892486260709110472008-04-03T06:38:00.000-07:002008-04-03T06:38:00.000-07:00you may appreciate this artist who painted somethi...you may appreciate this artist who painted something quite subtle and powerful on the topic: www.galeriecharmante.com/chinawallvita.html<BR/><BR/>what do you think of that?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10791179993397060674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4704148890264843595.post-27351722867057222202008-04-03T06:00:00.000-07:002008-04-03T06:00:00.000-07:00You have overlooked the most important point made ...You have overlooked the most important point made by Aamir Khan that if we were to boycott countries and Olympic games based on the human right abuses by the host countries, there would never be any Olympics.<BR/><BR/>Instead, you give us a long winding and ultimately unclear argument about how India's record is better than either Pakistan or China on the human rights front. None of this any relevance to the points which Aamir Khan makes.<BR/><BR/>You say<BR/>"The way we handle our problems in the minority areas is totally different from the way the Chinese handle them. We handle them like civilised, democratic people. "<BR/><BR/>May be you need to reminded of Gujarat, and the still wider net of Ghettoisation of minorities, the passing of anti-conversion bill in Rajasthan.Huzefa Mukadamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13260331363282749144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4704148890264843595.post-62401415453711962052008-04-03T04:01:00.000-07:002008-04-03T04:01:00.000-07:00Other than the part about the reason why Saif and ...Other than the part about the reason why Saif and Amir Khan are "asked" to participate because they are muslims (reminds me of that tasteless remark about Obama that the only reason he's getting votes is because he's black), I must say this is by far one of your best articles that I truly enjoy reading.<BR/><BR/>In the end it all boils down to the individual. I stand by the Tibetans, and I also wish Amir Khan doesn't participate. But at the same time, I don't think it is right on our part to pressure Amir Khan regarding this incident. Let him do what he feels is right, instead of painting him as the villain even before the actual event. I don't think there is any honor if Amir Khan doesn't run only because of pressure, and not because of how he really feels about Tibet.<BR/><BR/>I also hate the fact that Baichung Bhutia is singled out by some of the celebrities and accusing him of "mixing sports and politics". Like it or not, I truly believe sports IS politics, especially here in India. Anywhere, right from school level tournaments in any sporting events to National level, we are exposed to politics when it comes to sports. It is something we live with and observe, like the ICL vs IPL. And the Chinese themselves have boycotted the Olympics for many years. After I heard about Baichung's decision, I am filled with more admiration and respect for him.<BR/><BR/>Do keep writing, Sir.Mizohicanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09644240783333879705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4704148890264843595.post-64348870471602877082008-04-03T03:53:00.000-07:002008-04-03T03:53:00.000-07:00Sir,Aamir Khan's participation is a political stun...Sir,<BR/><BR/>Aamir Khan's participation is a political stunt. Something which he and others of his ilk are prone to. He neither has the knowledge of history nor does he understand the ramifications of participation in the Olympic Torch Relay. He gets publicity for free by participating in such events. Not too long ago he landed himself in controversy on the Narmada Sardar Sarovar Dam issue. As far as the other Khan is concerned less said the better.<BR/><BR/>Aamir Khan also is probably not aware of the fact that Olympic and world politics have been intrinsically linked. Munchen (Munich) 1972 had Black September guerillas taking Israeli athletes hostage and then killing them, Moscow 1980 was boycotted by Western countries due to Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.<BR/><BR/>The rights violation attributed to India in Kashmir from Muslim personalities has always invariably been one-sided and biased against the state. There is never a mention of the innocents being killed everyday by Islamic jihadis. So, naturally, neither Aamir nor Saif are exceptions. <BR/><BR/>Last but not the least, I thank you for making an endeavour to enlighten ignoramuses like Mr. Aamir Khan and Saif Ali Khan.<BR/><BR/>Regards<BR/>KumarKumarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02571503236070897848noreply@blogger.com